I have a challenge. More than 99% of people who claim to be Syeds are fake. Although they may or may not know this. It's so funny that the people who call themselves Syeds do agree that there are many fake Syeds in the society but they think themselves to be true Syeds because they have been told so by their parents. They possess a family tree to justify their claim but the irony is that the authenticity of their Family Tree can BY NO POSSIBLE MEANS be proven. How interesting is the fact that these so called Syeds have a strong conviction of being the true descendants of the Holy Prophet with no research done on their claim or their self-recorded and possessed Family Tree, whereas these people do not even agree on the number of the very direct descendants of the Holy Prophet; his daughters. According to Sunnis they were four in number whereas according to Shias, the Prophet had one daughter. If they just consider this only fact, they will probably review their claim to be Syed. A lot of research has been done, with a number of hadiths to consolidate the claims of each sect but still Muslims don't agree on the number of prophet's own daughters; his very next generation! but these Syeds so adamantly and so ignorantly claim themselves to be Prophet's real descendants with a fabricated Family Tree or at least one that can by no means be verified.
I have a very relevant piece of information here to further prove my point. The population of the world in the year 700 AD was 210 Million and today it is roughly 6billion, 800 Million. 700 AD is the year when the progeny of the prophet started to grow. It means that for each one individual at that time we now have approx. 33 people in all these years. This clearly shows how many descendants one individual can have in this much time. It shows that it is practically impossible for one person to have millions and millions of descendants as is allegedly the case with the Prophet. According to an estimate there are about 20 Million claimants of prophet's descent in more than 17 countries of the Muslim world. Now someone will point out that I am being forgetful about the factors that adversely affect human population growth such as disease, natural calamities, wars, revolutions, hunger, infertility, etc.
Let's suppose that out of those 210 million people, the descendants of only one million 'chosen ones' grew. We are subtracting the 209 million people, keeping in account all the aforementioned facts that control population growth. Now see the table below
One million * 6800 = 6 Billion 80 Million
It means if the population of only one million people out of those 210 million increased, the average number of descendants of each individual would be 6800! Did you see facts? Let's say someone doesn't agree. OK..
I will reduce the chosen 1 million to half and keep reducing the numbers see how the result will be:
700 AD * NOW(Descendants per person)= 6 Billion 800 Million
1 MILLION -- 6800
500000 -- 13600
250000 -- 27200
125000 -- 54400
62500 -- 108800
31250 -- 217600
15625 -- 435200
7812.50 -- 870400
3906.25 -- 1740800
1953.125 -- 3481600
976.56 -- 6963200
488.28 -- 13926400
340 -- 20000000
This means that it needs 340 very especially chosen individuals to have 20 Million descendants each in these 1300 years to have the world population at 6 Billion and 800 Million. Does it look like the case. If yes, then it means that one out of every 340 people in this world is a Syed! You may say I am being too critical to say that there should be 340 individual out of 210 Million.NOT AT ALL!! The truth is that there is just one individual out of 210 Million whose descendants have allegedly reached the number of 20 Million. Someone may say that it is a miracle. Let's see the chances of this miracle. 210 Million produced 6 Billion and 780 Million and one individual produced 20 Million. Just calculate the chances of this unique coincidence. See how many zeros you will have after a decimal. It is very clear from the aforesaid that the whole story of Syeds is fabricated. One may be left with one last argument that because of polygamy the Arabs are more fertile and this may be the reason of the descendants of the prophet being so many. To the surprise of such a person, the share of Arab/Other Asian population in 700 AD in the world population was 23% and now it is 17%. The Syeds are an Arab people, they should obviously be in Arab parts of the world which is not the case. If you argue that they are more in India, then Indian population in 700 AD was 21% and is the same now. Another argument here is that if Arabs/Indians are polygamous and their numbers have increased more than my question is where are the descendants of other Arabs/Indians of that time?
Interesting fact: The population of the City of Bukhara is 263,400 according to 2009 census and they are not all Syeds!!! Just look at how many Bukharis you will find in Pakistan etc. And all of them are ‘Syeds’. Just imagine what the population of Bukhara could have been before some of them started to migrate to the Sub Continent and how many of them could have been Syeds.
I have another question. If the people of Bukhara/Gardez/Kandahar/Sheraz/Gilan migrated because of the Mongol invasion, where are the people of other ethnicities/origins. Did they not have any descendants. Obviously yes. Where are they? Why did they not keep their names alive. That they intermingled with the people of the other lands and lost their identity is nothing more than a fib. Generations of people carry the names of their forefathers through paternal side. Even if an Uzbak man married an Indian woman, the next generation will still be called Uzbak. So where are the other Bukharis/Gardezis/Sherazis/Gilanis? Why did they not preserve their names whereas people from other castes did? Where are the descendants of other Sahabas/other clans or Quraish.
I am from Pakistan. I find it impossible to believe that people from a far off place migrated to this country and outnumbered the aboriginal people here living for millennia. I am asking these so called Syeds. How many people have they seen from castes such as Sukhera, Sandhila, Sihar, Siyal, Tarar, Sohal, Wahla, Virk etc etc etc. These for sure are aboriginal people of Pakistan. How can I believe that they have been outnumber by Syeds to this extent that an individual hardly sees a handful of or sometimes not even a single person from these castes but he must have seen hundreds and hundreds of people carrying the Syed label in his life. Does this not sound like a joke. Are these so called Syeds not ashamed of these facts and figures.
In presence of all these facts I ask the Syeds how safe this is to call oneself a Syed keeping in account how faint are the chances of one’s claims to be true. If I am in such a position, I will probably stop calling myself one because no one except Allah knows the truth. It is IMPOSSIBLE to depend on the Shajra possessed by families as NO ONE can claim that it is pure and has passed through immaculate hands all through these 14 centuries. Can someone claim that?
People who are acquainted with the knowledge of Hadith collection know the amount of painstaking work that was done by Hadith Collectors to check the authenticity of each and every hadith and the science of Hadith Collection was invented with an emphasis on profound study of Isma ur Rijal. This work was done in few decades of the Holy Prophets demise and still people do not agree on different sets of Hadith and sects have been found after thorough research on each Hadith. See how difficult it is to draw facts. But how simple it is to claim to be a Syed on the base of a self possessed and ‘homegrown’ Shajra with no research done on it and no office to keep a record of it. Even a little kid can swear on God to have an authentic primary school certificate as he knows that he has done it but I challenge all Syeds to swear on God that they know that the Shajra they possess is authentic and they have a perfect knowledge of the piety of the people who kept it all through these 40 odd generations.
Lastly, I would like to mention here that it’s the character of a person, and not his lineage that counts in determining other people’s behaviour towards him. A person of bad character does not in any case deserve our reverence and respect no matter what his caste is. I would like to remove a very common misconception in the minds of these so called Syeds who think that when someone sends Durood on Holy Prophet and his Aal, they are also amongst the recipients. Have these people ever tried to read the Durood e Pak properly. It says ‘may peace be on Muhammad and Aal e Muhammad in the same way as there was peace on Ibrahim and Aal e Ibrahim’
Do these Syeds not know that Aal e Ibrahim were jews and non-believers of Mecca from Ishaq and Ishmael’s sides respectively. Do you send durood on them? Everyone knows that the greatest enemies of Islam including Abu Jahal was from the Aal of Ibrahim. For Shias, a great number of companions including Abu Bakar, Umar, Uthman, Talha, Zubair, Saad bin Abi Waqas, Ayesha, Hafza etc etc were all from Aal e Ibrahim. All the Banu Umayyads were Aal e Ibrahim. Do Shia (leaders of the fake Syed party) send Durood of them if they think that Durood is being sent on the whole of the Aal e Muhammad?
The fact is that Durood is being sent on only the pious individuals of the Aal of Muhammad just as it is sent on the pious people of the Aal of Ibrahim. Do not ever think that every tom **** and harry is getting part of the Durood like these contemporary Syeds with loose character and unfair dealings.
I have all these questions open for debate. I highly appreciate your participation in this discussion.
For the figures I have used, I have references available in case someone has a doubt. You can easily get these figures from the internet by searching with appropriate entry of words.
I have a very relevant piece of information here to further prove my point. The population of the world in the year 700 AD was 210 Million and today it is roughly 6billion, 800 Million. 700 AD is the year when the progeny of the prophet started to grow. It means that for each one individual at that time we now have approx. 33 people in all these years. This clearly shows how many descendants one individual can have in this much time. It shows that it is practically impossible for one person to have millions and millions of descendants as is allegedly the case with the Prophet. According to an estimate there are about 20 Million claimants of prophet's descent in more than 17 countries of the Muslim world. Now someone will point out that I am being forgetful about the factors that adversely affect human population growth such as disease, natural calamities, wars, revolutions, hunger, infertility, etc.
Let's suppose that out of those 210 million people, the descendants of only one million 'chosen ones' grew. We are subtracting the 209 million people, keeping in account all the aforementioned facts that control population growth. Now see the table below
One million * 6800 = 6 Billion 80 Million
It means if the population of only one million people out of those 210 million increased, the average number of descendants of each individual would be 6800! Did you see facts? Let's say someone doesn't agree. OK..
I will reduce the chosen 1 million to half and keep reducing the numbers see how the result will be:
700 AD * NOW(Descendants per person)= 6 Billion 800 Million
1 MILLION -- 6800
500000 -- 13600
250000 -- 27200
125000 -- 54400
62500 -- 108800
31250 -- 217600
15625 -- 435200
7812.50 -- 870400
3906.25 -- 1740800
1953.125 -- 3481600
976.56 -- 6963200
488.28 -- 13926400
340 -- 20000000
This means that it needs 340 very especially chosen individuals to have 20 Million descendants each in these 1300 years to have the world population at 6 Billion and 800 Million. Does it look like the case. If yes, then it means that one out of every 340 people in this world is a Syed! You may say I am being too critical to say that there should be 340 individual out of 210 Million.NOT AT ALL!! The truth is that there is just one individual out of 210 Million whose descendants have allegedly reached the number of 20 Million. Someone may say that it is a miracle. Let's see the chances of this miracle. 210 Million produced 6 Billion and 780 Million and one individual produced 20 Million. Just calculate the chances of this unique coincidence. See how many zeros you will have after a decimal. It is very clear from the aforesaid that the whole story of Syeds is fabricated. One may be left with one last argument that because of polygamy the Arabs are more fertile and this may be the reason of the descendants of the prophet being so many. To the surprise of such a person, the share of Arab/Other Asian population in 700 AD in the world population was 23% and now it is 17%. The Syeds are an Arab people, they should obviously be in Arab parts of the world which is not the case. If you argue that they are more in India, then Indian population in 700 AD was 21% and is the same now. Another argument here is that if Arabs/Indians are polygamous and their numbers have increased more than my question is where are the descendants of other Arabs/Indians of that time?
Interesting fact: The population of the City of Bukhara is 263,400 according to 2009 census and they are not all Syeds!!! Just look at how many Bukharis you will find in Pakistan etc. And all of them are ‘Syeds’. Just imagine what the population of Bukhara could have been before some of them started to migrate to the Sub Continent and how many of them could have been Syeds.
I have another question. If the people of Bukhara/Gardez/Kandahar/Sheraz/Gilan migrated because of the Mongol invasion, where are the people of other ethnicities/origins. Did they not have any descendants. Obviously yes. Where are they? Why did they not keep their names alive. That they intermingled with the people of the other lands and lost their identity is nothing more than a fib. Generations of people carry the names of their forefathers through paternal side. Even if an Uzbak man married an Indian woman, the next generation will still be called Uzbak. So where are the other Bukharis/Gardezis/Sherazis/Gilanis? Why did they not preserve their names whereas people from other castes did? Where are the descendants of other Sahabas/other clans or Quraish.
I am from Pakistan. I find it impossible to believe that people from a far off place migrated to this country and outnumbered the aboriginal people here living for millennia. I am asking these so called Syeds. How many people have they seen from castes such as Sukhera, Sandhila, Sihar, Siyal, Tarar, Sohal, Wahla, Virk etc etc etc. These for sure are aboriginal people of Pakistan. How can I believe that they have been outnumber by Syeds to this extent that an individual hardly sees a handful of or sometimes not even a single person from these castes but he must have seen hundreds and hundreds of people carrying the Syed label in his life. Does this not sound like a joke. Are these so called Syeds not ashamed of these facts and figures.
In presence of all these facts I ask the Syeds how safe this is to call oneself a Syed keeping in account how faint are the chances of one’s claims to be true. If I am in such a position, I will probably stop calling myself one because no one except Allah knows the truth. It is IMPOSSIBLE to depend on the Shajra possessed by families as NO ONE can claim that it is pure and has passed through immaculate hands all through these 14 centuries. Can someone claim that?
People who are acquainted with the knowledge of Hadith collection know the amount of painstaking work that was done by Hadith Collectors to check the authenticity of each and every hadith and the science of Hadith Collection was invented with an emphasis on profound study of Isma ur Rijal. This work was done in few decades of the Holy Prophets demise and still people do not agree on different sets of Hadith and sects have been found after thorough research on each Hadith. See how difficult it is to draw facts. But how simple it is to claim to be a Syed on the base of a self possessed and ‘homegrown’ Shajra with no research done on it and no office to keep a record of it. Even a little kid can swear on God to have an authentic primary school certificate as he knows that he has done it but I challenge all Syeds to swear on God that they know that the Shajra they possess is authentic and they have a perfect knowledge of the piety of the people who kept it all through these 40 odd generations.
Lastly, I would like to mention here that it’s the character of a person, and not his lineage that counts in determining other people’s behaviour towards him. A person of bad character does not in any case deserve our reverence and respect no matter what his caste is. I would like to remove a very common misconception in the minds of these so called Syeds who think that when someone sends Durood on Holy Prophet and his Aal, they are also amongst the recipients. Have these people ever tried to read the Durood e Pak properly. It says ‘may peace be on Muhammad and Aal e Muhammad in the same way as there was peace on Ibrahim and Aal e Ibrahim’
Do these Syeds not know that Aal e Ibrahim were jews and non-believers of Mecca from Ishaq and Ishmael’s sides respectively. Do you send durood on them? Everyone knows that the greatest enemies of Islam including Abu Jahal was from the Aal of Ibrahim. For Shias, a great number of companions including Abu Bakar, Umar, Uthman, Talha, Zubair, Saad bin Abi Waqas, Ayesha, Hafza etc etc were all from Aal e Ibrahim. All the Banu Umayyads were Aal e Ibrahim. Do Shia (leaders of the fake Syed party) send Durood of them if they think that Durood is being sent on the whole of the Aal e Muhammad?
The fact is that Durood is being sent on only the pious individuals of the Aal of Muhammad just as it is sent on the pious people of the Aal of Ibrahim. Do not ever think that every tom **** and harry is getting part of the Durood like these contemporary Syeds with loose character and unfair dealings.
I have all these questions open for debate. I highly appreciate your participation in this discussion.
For the figures I have used, I have references available in case someone has a doubt. You can easily get these figures from the internet by searching with appropriate entry of words.
#2
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Posted 17 August 2011 - 04:08 AM
if someone claims to be sayed, then treat them as such until they give you reason enough to not believe them. frauds who lie in the name of sayyeda fatima (sa) are exposed almost immediately.
Edited by Maula Dha Mallang, 17 August 2011 - 04:11 AM.
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I Hate, Because I Love.
Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from his father from Hammad from Hariz from Fudayl ibn Yasar who has said the following:
“I asked abu ‘Abd Allah, recipient of divine supreme covenant, ‘Are love and hate part of belief?’ The Imam asked, ‘Is belief anything but love and hate?’
Source: Al Kafi Volume 2 Page 125
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Posted 17 August 2011 - 04:18 AM
karan, on 17 August 2011 - 04:16 AM, said:then how we can know that a person is true syed or fake??
their actions. true sayeds cannot hide their nature and their beauty any more than a lit candle can hide its flame
I Hate, Because I Love.
Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from his father from Hammad from Hariz from Fudayl ibn Yasar who has said the following:
“I asked abu ‘Abd Allah, recipient of divine supreme covenant, ‘Are love and hate part of belief?’ The Imam asked, ‘Is belief anything but love and hate?’
Source: Al Kafi Volume 2 Page 125
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Posted 17 August 2011 - 04:25 AM
karan, on 17 August 2011 - 04:24 AM, said:brother, what is meant by beauti?
the normal sense of the word.
the descendents of the face of Allah can be nothing *but* the most beautiful people on earth.
I Hate, Because I Love.
Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from his father from Hammad from Hariz from Fudayl ibn Yasar who has said the following:
“I asked abu ‘Abd Allah, recipient of divine supreme covenant, ‘Are love and hate part of belief?’ The Imam asked, ‘Is belief anything but love and hate?’
Source: Al Kafi Volume 2 Page 125
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Posted 17 August 2011 - 04:33 AM
Maula Dha Mallang, on 17 August 2011 - 04:18 AM, said:their actions. true sayeds cannot hide their nature and their beauty any more than a lit candle can hide its flame
Actually, this is incorrect. I will revise that statement to make it correct. "True MUSLIMS cannot hide their nature and their beauty any more than a lit candle can hide its flame." Lineage does not, never will, and never has been taken into account by Allah.
To the OP, yes, I do think more syeds are fake, and that some people will stop at nothing to attain people's respect while doing as little work as possible to deserve that respect.
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Posted 17 August 2011 - 04:35 AM
BabyBeaverIsAKit, on 17 August 2011 - 04:33 AM, said:Actually, this is incorrect. I will revise that statement to make it correct. "True MUSLIMS cannot hide their nature and their beauty any more than a lit candle can hide its flame." Lineage does not, never will, and never has been taken into account by Allah.
To the OP, yes, I do think more syeds are fake, and that some people will stop at nothing to attain people's respect while doing as little work as possible to deserve that respect.
i meant what i said sis
muslims akhlaaq must be better than that of non muslims
shias akhlaaq must be the best of the muslims
sayeds must be the best of all shia.
bloodline is pretty central to islam, take a look at the pains we must go through concerning inheritance, adoption, being halal zade, and the fact sayed scholars wear black turbans.
I Hate, Because I Love.
Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from his father from Hammad from Hariz from Fudayl ibn Yasar who has said the following:
“I asked abu ‘Abd Allah, recipient of divine supreme covenant, ‘Are love and hate part of belief?’ The Imam asked, ‘Is belief anything but love and hate?’
Source: Al Kafi Volume 2 Page 125
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Posted 17 August 2011 - 04:36 AM
Maula Dha Mallang, on 17 August 2011 - 04:18 AM, said:their actions. true sayeds cannot hide their nature and their beauty any more than a lit candle can hide its flame
True.
But like many con-men, they hide their true agenda behind their knowledge, by which point they have already fooled so many good people into doing their 'charity' work for them.
But ultimately they will pay the biggest price when infront of Allah.
Most people would not even think of questioning a 'Syed' with knowledge, because it would go against our nature in Islam. But questioning is the only way we get answers and gain knowledge and trust. From my basic understand we are taught in Islam to question, when those answers lead you to the truth, then i would not consider it 'back-biting' personally as many so called Seyeds hide behind the hadiths of 'Back-biting' in order to protect their modesty, or lack of.
Once a man came to Prophet Mohamed
and said, "O Messenger of Allah, I have many bad habits. Which one of them should I give up first?" Prophet Mohamed said, "Give up telling lies first and always speak the truth." The man promised to do so and never again commit another transgression and went home.At night the man was about to go out to steal. Before setting out, he thought for a moment about the advice of Prophet Mohamed
and his promise. "If tomorrow Prophet Mohamed asks me where have I been, what shall I say? Shall I say that I went out stealing? No, I cannot say that. But nor can I lie. If I tell the truth, everyone will start hating me and call me a thief. I would be punished for stealing."رحمك الله
Rahimakalla
Ali
Edited by AbuLayla, 17 August 2011 - 04:37 AM.
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Posted 17 August 2011 - 04:43 AM
I think alot of them are either mislead by an ancestor who was a liar or they are a liar. I noticed there is one area of the world in particular that seems to have a bottomless pit of "syeds" and I don't think there is any way that there are that MANY.
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Posted 17 August 2011 - 04:55 AM
ImAli, on 17 August 2011 - 04:43 AM, said:I think alot of them are either mislead by an ancestor who was a liar or they are a liar. I noticed there is one area of the world in particular that seems to have a bottomless pit of "syeds" and I don't think there is any way that there are that MANY.
Sister may i ask which part you think that to be the case?
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Posted 17 August 2011 - 05:08 AM
ambrosechappel, on 17 August 2011 - 04:06 AM, said:I have a challenge. More than 99% of people who claim to be Syeds are fake. Although they may or may not know this. It's so funny that the people who call themselves Syeds do agree that there are many fake Syeds in the society but they think themselves to be true Syeds because they have been told so by their parents. They possess a family tree to justify their claim but the irony is that the authenticity of their Family Tree can BY NO POSSIBLE MEANS be proven. How interesting is the fact that these so called Syeds have a strong conviction of being the true descendants of the Holy Prophet with no research done on their claim or their self-recorded and possessed Family Tree, whereas these people do not even agree on the number of the very direct descendants of the Holy Prophet; his daughters. According to Sunnis they were four in number whereas according to Shias, the Prophet had one daughter. If they just consider this only fact, they will probably review their claim to be Syed. A lot of research has been done, with a number of hadiths to consolidate the claims of each sect but still Muslims don't agree on the number of prophet's own daughters; his very next generation! but these Syeds so adamantly and so ignorantly claim themselves to be Prophet's real descendants with a fabricated Family Tree or at least one that can by no means be verified.
I have a very relevant piece of information here to further prove my point. The population of the world in the year 700 AD was 210 Million and today it is roughly 6billion, 800 Million. 700 AD is the year when the progeny of the prophet started to grow. It means that for each one individual at that time we now have approx. 33 people in all these years. This clearly shows how many descendants one individual can have in this much time. It shows that it is practically impossible for one person to have millions and millions of descendants as is allegedly the case with the Prophet. According to an estimate there are about 20 Million claimants of prophet's descent in more than 17 countries of the Muslim world. Now someone will point out that I am being forgetful about the factors that adversely affect human population growth such as disease, natural calamities, wars, revolutions, hunger, infertility, etc.
Let's suppose that out of those 210 million people, the descendants of only one million 'chosen ones' grew. We are subtracting the 209 million people, keeping in account all the aforementioned facts that control population growth. Now see the table below
One million * 6800 = 6 Billion 80 Million
It means if the population of only one million people out of those 210 million increased, the average number of descendants of each individual would be 6800! Did you see facts? Let's say someone doesn't agree. OK..
I will reduce the chosen 1 million to half and keep reducing the numbers see how the result will be:
700 AD * NOW(Descendants per person)= 6 Billion 800 Million
1 MILLION -- 6800
500000 -- 13600
250000 -- 27200
125000 -- 54400
62500 -- 108800
31250 -- 217600
15625 -- 435200
7812.50 -- 870400
3906.25 -- 1740800
1953.125 -- 3481600
976.56 -- 6963200
488.28 -- 13926400
340 -- 20000000
This means that it needs 340 very especially chosen individuals to have 20 Million descendants each in these 1300 years to have the world population at 6 Billion and 800 Million. Does it look like the case. If yes, then it means that one out of every 340 people in this world is a Syed! You may say I am being too critical to say that there should be 340 individual out of 210 Million.NOT AT ALL!! The truth is that there is just one individual out of 210 Million whose descendants have allegedly reached the number of 20 Million. Someone may say that it is a miracle. Let's see the chances of this miracle. 210 Million produced 6 Billion and 780 Million and one individual produced 20 Million. Just calculate the chances of this unique coincidence. See how many zeros you will have after a decimal. It is very clear from the aforesaid that the whole story of Syeds is fabricated. One may be left with one last argument that because of polygamy the Arabs are more fertile and this may be the reason of the descendants of the prophet being so many. To the surprise of such a person, the share of Arab/Other Asian population in 700 AD in the world population was 23% and now it is 17%. The Syeds are an Arab people, they should obviously be in Arab parts of the world which is not the case. If you argue that they are more in India, then Indian population in 700 AD was 21% and is the same now. Another argument here is that if Arabs/Indians are polygamous and their numbers have increased more than my question is where are the descendants of other Arabs/Indians of that time?
Interesting fact: The population of the City of Bukhara is 263,400 according to 2009 census and they are not all Syeds!!! Just look at how many Bukharis you will find in Pakistan etc. And all of them are 'Syeds'. Just imagine what the population of Bukhara could have been before some of them started to migrate to the Sub Continent and how many of them could have been Syeds.
I have another question. If the people of Bukhara/Gardez/Kandahar/Sheraz/Gilan migrated because of the Mongol invasion, where are the people of other ethnicities/origins. Did they not have any descendants. Obviously yes. Where are they? Why did they not keep their names alive. That they intermingled with the people of the other lands and lost their identity is nothing more than a fib. Generations of people carry the names of their forefathers through paternal side. Even if an Uzbak man married an Indian woman, the next generation will still be called Uzbak. So where are the other Bukharis/Gardezis/Sherazis/Gilanis? Why did they not preserve their names whereas people from other castes did? Where are the descendants of other Sahabas/other clans or Quraish.
I am from Pakistan. I find it impossible to believe that people from a far off place migrated to this country and outnumbered the aboriginal people here living for millennia. I am asking these so called Syeds. How many people have they seen from castes such as Sukhera, Sandhila, Sihar, Siyal, Tarar, Sohal, Wahla, Virk etc etc etc. These for sure are aboriginal people of Pakistan. How can I believe that they have been outnumber by Syeds to this extent that an individual hardly sees a handful of or sometimes not even a single person from these castes but he must have seen hundreds and hundreds of people carrying the Syed label in his life. Does this not sound like a joke. Are these so called Syeds not ashamed of these facts and figures.
In presence of all these facts I ask the Syeds how safe this is to call oneself a Syed keeping in account how faint are the chances of one's claims to be true. If I am in such a position, I will probably stop calling myself one because no one except Allah knows the truth. It is IMPOSSIBLE to depend on the Shajra possessed by families as NO ONE can claim that it is pure and has passed through immaculate hands all through these 14 centuries. Can someone claim that?
People who are acquainted with the knowledge of Hadith collection know the amount of painstaking work that was done by Hadith Collectors to check the authenticity of each and every hadith and the science of Hadith Collection was invented with an emphasis on profound study of Isma ur Rijal. This work was done in few decades of the Holy Prophets demise and still people do not agree on different sets of Hadith and sects have been found after thorough research on each Hadith. See how difficult it is to draw facts. But how simple it is to claim to be a Syed on the base of a self possessed and 'homegrown' Shajra with no research done on it and no office to keep a record of it. Even a little kid can swear on God to have an authentic primary school certificate as he knows that he has done it but I challenge all Syeds to swear on God that they know that the Shajra they possess is authentic and they have a perfect knowledge of the piety of the people who kept it all through these 40 odd generations.
Lastly, I would like to mention here that it's the character of a person, and not his lineage that counts in determining other people's behaviour towards him. A person of bad character does not in any case deserve our reverence and respect no matter what his caste is. I would like to remove a very common misconception in the minds of these so called Syeds who think that when someone sends Durood on Holy Prophet and his Aal, they are also amongst the recipients. Have these people ever tried to read the Durood e Pak properly. It says 'may peace be on Muhammad and Aal e Muhammad in the same way as there was peace on Ibrahim and Aal e Ibrahim'
Do these Syeds not know that Aal e Ibrahim were jews and non-believers of Mecca from Ishaq and Ishmael's sides respectively. Do you send durood on them? Everyone knows that the greatest enemies of Islam including Abu Jahal was from the Aal of Ibrahim. For Shias, a great number of companions including Abu Bakar, Umar, Uthman, Talha, Zubair, Saad bin Abi Waqas, Ayesha, Hafza etc etc were all from Aal e Ibrahim. All the Banu Umayyads were Aal e Ibrahim. Do Shia (leaders of the fake Syed party) send Durood of them if they think that Durood is being sent on the whole of the Aal e Muhammad?
The fact is that Durood is being sent on only the pious individuals of the Aal of Muhammad just as it is sent on the pious people of the Aal of Ibrahim. Do not ever think that every tom **** and harry is getting part of the Durood like these contemporary Syeds with loose character and unfair dealings.
I have all these questions open for debate. I highly appreciate your participation in this discussion.
For the figures I have used, I have references available in case someone has a doubt. You can easily get these figures from the internet by searching with appropriate entry of words.
I have a very relevant piece of information here to further prove my point. The population of the world in the year 700 AD was 210 Million and today it is roughly 6billion, 800 Million. 700 AD is the year when the progeny of the prophet started to grow. It means that for each one individual at that time we now have approx. 33 people in all these years. This clearly shows how many descendants one individual can have in this much time. It shows that it is practically impossible for one person to have millions and millions of descendants as is allegedly the case with the Prophet. According to an estimate there are about 20 Million claimants of prophet's descent in more than 17 countries of the Muslim world. Now someone will point out that I am being forgetful about the factors that adversely affect human population growth such as disease, natural calamities, wars, revolutions, hunger, infertility, etc.
Let's suppose that out of those 210 million people, the descendants of only one million 'chosen ones' grew. We are subtracting the 209 million people, keeping in account all the aforementioned facts that control population growth. Now see the table below
One million * 6800 = 6 Billion 80 Million
It means if the population of only one million people out of those 210 million increased, the average number of descendants of each individual would be 6800! Did you see facts? Let's say someone doesn't agree. OK..
I will reduce the chosen 1 million to half and keep reducing the numbers see how the result will be:
700 AD * NOW(Descendants per person)= 6 Billion 800 Million
1 MILLION -- 6800
500000 -- 13600
250000 -- 27200
125000 -- 54400
62500 -- 108800
31250 -- 217600
15625 -- 435200
7812.50 -- 870400
3906.25 -- 1740800
1953.125 -- 3481600
976.56 -- 6963200
488.28 -- 13926400
340 -- 20000000
This means that it needs 340 very especially chosen individuals to have 20 Million descendants each in these 1300 years to have the world population at 6 Billion and 800 Million. Does it look like the case. If yes, then it means that one out of every 340 people in this world is a Syed! You may say I am being too critical to say that there should be 340 individual out of 210 Million.NOT AT ALL!! The truth is that there is just one individual out of 210 Million whose descendants have allegedly reached the number of 20 Million. Someone may say that it is a miracle. Let's see the chances of this miracle. 210 Million produced 6 Billion and 780 Million and one individual produced 20 Million. Just calculate the chances of this unique coincidence. See how many zeros you will have after a decimal. It is very clear from the aforesaid that the whole story of Syeds is fabricated. One may be left with one last argument that because of polygamy the Arabs are more fertile and this may be the reason of the descendants of the prophet being so many. To the surprise of such a person, the share of Arab/Other Asian population in 700 AD in the world population was 23% and now it is 17%. The Syeds are an Arab people, they should obviously be in Arab parts of the world which is not the case. If you argue that they are more in India, then Indian population in 700 AD was 21% and is the same now. Another argument here is that if Arabs/Indians are polygamous and their numbers have increased more than my question is where are the descendants of other Arabs/Indians of that time?
Interesting fact: The population of the City of Bukhara is 263,400 according to 2009 census and they are not all Syeds!!! Just look at how many Bukharis you will find in Pakistan etc. And all of them are 'Syeds'. Just imagine what the population of Bukhara could have been before some of them started to migrate to the Sub Continent and how many of them could have been Syeds.
I have another question. If the people of Bukhara/Gardez/Kandahar/Sheraz/Gilan migrated because of the Mongol invasion, where are the people of other ethnicities/origins. Did they not have any descendants. Obviously yes. Where are they? Why did they not keep their names alive. That they intermingled with the people of the other lands and lost their identity is nothing more than a fib. Generations of people carry the names of their forefathers through paternal side. Even if an Uzbak man married an Indian woman, the next generation will still be called Uzbak. So where are the other Bukharis/Gardezis/Sherazis/Gilanis? Why did they not preserve their names whereas people from other castes did? Where are the descendants of other Sahabas/other clans or Quraish.
I am from Pakistan. I find it impossible to believe that people from a far off place migrated to this country and outnumbered the aboriginal people here living for millennia. I am asking these so called Syeds. How many people have they seen from castes such as Sukhera, Sandhila, Sihar, Siyal, Tarar, Sohal, Wahla, Virk etc etc etc. These for sure are aboriginal people of Pakistan. How can I believe that they have been outnumber by Syeds to this extent that an individual hardly sees a handful of or sometimes not even a single person from these castes but he must have seen hundreds and hundreds of people carrying the Syed label in his life. Does this not sound like a joke. Are these so called Syeds not ashamed of these facts and figures.
In presence of all these facts I ask the Syeds how safe this is to call oneself a Syed keeping in account how faint are the chances of one's claims to be true. If I am in such a position, I will probably stop calling myself one because no one except Allah knows the truth. It is IMPOSSIBLE to depend on the Shajra possessed by families as NO ONE can claim that it is pure and has passed through immaculate hands all through these 14 centuries. Can someone claim that?
People who are acquainted with the knowledge of Hadith collection know the amount of painstaking work that was done by Hadith Collectors to check the authenticity of each and every hadith and the science of Hadith Collection was invented with an emphasis on profound study of Isma ur Rijal. This work was done in few decades of the Holy Prophets demise and still people do not agree on different sets of Hadith and sects have been found after thorough research on each Hadith. See how difficult it is to draw facts. But how simple it is to claim to be a Syed on the base of a self possessed and 'homegrown' Shajra with no research done on it and no office to keep a record of it. Even a little kid can swear on God to have an authentic primary school certificate as he knows that he has done it but I challenge all Syeds to swear on God that they know that the Shajra they possess is authentic and they have a perfect knowledge of the piety of the people who kept it all through these 40 odd generations.
Lastly, I would like to mention here that it's the character of a person, and not his lineage that counts in determining other people's behaviour towards him. A person of bad character does not in any case deserve our reverence and respect no matter what his caste is. I would like to remove a very common misconception in the minds of these so called Syeds who think that when someone sends Durood on Holy Prophet and his Aal, they are also amongst the recipients. Have these people ever tried to read the Durood e Pak properly. It says 'may peace be on Muhammad and Aal e Muhammad in the same way as there was peace on Ibrahim and Aal e Ibrahim'
Do these Syeds not know that Aal e Ibrahim were jews and non-believers of Mecca from Ishaq and Ishmael's sides respectively. Do you send durood on them? Everyone knows that the greatest enemies of Islam including Abu Jahal was from the Aal of Ibrahim. For Shias, a great number of companions including Abu Bakar, Umar, Uthman, Talha, Zubair, Saad bin Abi Waqas, Ayesha, Hafza etc etc were all from Aal e Ibrahim. All the Banu Umayyads were Aal e Ibrahim. Do Shia (leaders of the fake Syed party) send Durood of them if they think that Durood is being sent on the whole of the Aal e Muhammad?
The fact is that Durood is being sent on only the pious individuals of the Aal of Muhammad just as it is sent on the pious people of the Aal of Ibrahim. Do not ever think that every tom **** and harry is getting part of the Durood like these contemporary Syeds with loose character and unfair dealings.
I have all these questions open for debate. I highly appreciate your participation in this discussion.
For the figures I have used, I have references available in case someone has a doubt. You can easily get these figures from the internet by searching with appropriate entry of words.
I have great sympathy for witless people like you who love to spurn baseless arguments which achieve absolutely nothing lol. So what if most of them are fake (according to you) ?. What if they're not? How does that matter? Is it gonna make the world a better place?
Till then, all i'm gonna say is "Haters gonna hate"
#14
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Posted 17 August 2011 - 05:11 AM
Maula Dha Mallang, on 17 August 2011 - 04:08 AM, said:if someone claims to be sayed, then treat them as such until they give you reason enough to not believe them. frauds who lie in the name of sayyeda fatima (sa) are exposed almost immediately.
Agreed! Why just doubt "Syeds" ? This speculation should take place for all titles, and not merely Syeds.
#15
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Posted 17 August 2011 - 05:31 AM
Maula Dha Mallang, on 17 August 2011 - 04:35 AM, said:i meant what i said sis
muslims akhlaaq must be better than that of non muslims
shias akhlaaq must be the best of the muslims
sayeds must be the best of all shia.
bloodline is pretty central to islam, take a look at the pains we must go through concerning inheritance, adoption, being halal zade, and the fact sayed scholars wear black turbans.
*Sigh* It is ignorance like yours that breeds this false caste system with syeds. I don't even know where to begin in order to correct your misconceptions. I'll save myself the trouble-- go read the numerous threads here regarding syeds. Skip over reading the ignorant, racist posts. *Sigh* may Allah save us from ignorance like yours.
#16
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Posted 17 August 2011 - 05:36 AM
Maula Dha Mallang, on 17 August 2011 - 04:35 AM, said:i meant what i said sis
muslims akhlaaq must be better than that of non muslims
shias akhlaaq must be the best of the muslims
sayeds must be the best of all shia.
bloodline is pretty central to islam, take a look at the pains we must go through concerning inheritance, adoption, being halal zade, and the fact sayed scholars wear black turbans.
How does that make sense when some of the worst people out there were children/descendants of the Imams? Just think of all those who were pretender Imams, calling the people to themselves and rejecting the rightful holder of authority. Yes they were Hashimids, but no they certainly were not the best of all Shi`a...
#17
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Posted 17 August 2011 - 05:51 AM
AbuLayla, on 17 August 2011 - 04:55 AM, said:Sister may i ask which part you think that to be the case?
رحمك الله
Rahimakalla
Ali
I could say but it may offend people and hurt feelings on here and I don't want to do that. Let me just say that since visiting this site it seems that "syedness" has turned into a new caste system and it seems that people from this area of the world throw around the world syed more than anywhere else. To the person who said you should treat someone as a syed until you find out otherwise....what is that supposed to mean? I treat people according to their actions and behavior, and upon meeting people I treat everyone with the same respect until they show me a bad side. To be honest if someone walks around announcing that they are syed (because really who cares...prove your greatness don't just say it) it would automatically irritate most people I surround myself with and it would irritate me too.
#18
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Posted 17 August 2011 - 05:57 AM
Lineage means very little, and should mean very little to people. It is the actions that matter.
Imam Ali
says: "The one who takes pride solely in his lineage over another is a fool."
I think brother D'Arcy (Darthy!) gave a perfect example of people like Ismael, i.e., fake Imams who were sons of real Imams. It is a Seyyed's character that makes him a Seyyed. And I can not think of any extra benefit a Seyyed will have on the Judgment Day. On the contrary, it makes sense to me that a Seyyed may get punished a lot more severely if they did not live up to what should be expected from a descendant of the holy Prophet and his blessed progeny .
While some people revere Seyyeds and I found it odd until I asked one such person who replied that he reveres the father of all Seyyeds whom he loves above all in the world and that makes him treat their flesh and blood, i.e., Seyyeds, with respect because of that alone. And therefore, he said, it does not concern him whether any Seyyed is good or bad in his deeds, because their person is actually not the object of his respect. Sounded like a convincing answer to me.
Imam Ali
says: "The one who takes pride solely in his lineage over another is a fool."I think brother D'Arcy (Darthy!) gave a perfect example of people like Ismael, i.e., fake Imams who were sons of real Imams
. It is a Seyyed's character that makes him a Seyyed. And I can not think of any extra benefit a Seyyed will have on the Judgment Day. On the contrary, it makes sense to me that a Seyyed may get punished a lot more severely if they did not live up to what should be expected from a descendant of the holy Prophet and his blessed progeny .While some people revere Seyyeds and I found it odd until I asked one such person who replied that he reveres the father of all Seyyeds whom he loves above all in the world and that makes him treat their flesh and blood, i.e., Seyyeds, with respect because of that alone. And therefore, he said, it does not concern him whether any Seyyed is good or bad in his deeds, because their person is actually not the object of his respect. Sounded like a convincing answer to me.
#19
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Posted 17 August 2011 - 06:11 AM
Assalam oe alakum!
as you can see by my name i am a Syyed! Maybe i dont know how to prove it but my dads side of the family does come from Prophet Muhmmad SAW you do have a point i have aboustely no clue of how to prove it, but i am from Iraq and why would anyone lie about this? Im sure the brother up there what he said is true, you can easily distinquish the fakes and truth
Oh and continuation yes Abu dajana you have a great point i guess there is some people who call themselves Syyeds to brag? Im not sure, but im guessing that theres no real point Allah said that all men are equal in his eyes, YOU dont have to be a Syyed to earn respect from Allah, that is the true beauty of it
as you can see by my name i am a Syyed! Maybe i dont know how to prove it but my dads side of the family does come from Prophet Muhmmad SAW you do have a point i have aboustely no clue of how to prove it, but i am from Iraq and why would anyone lie about this? Im sure the brother up there what he said is true, you can easily distinquish the fakes and truth
Oh and continuation yes Abu dajana you have a great point i guess there is some people who call themselves Syyeds to brag? Im not sure, but im guessing that theres no real point Allah said that all men are equal in his eyes, YOU dont have to be a Syyed to earn respect from Allah, that is the true beauty of it
#20
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Posted 17 August 2011 - 02:24 PM
BabyBeaverIsAKit, on 17 August 2011 - 05:31 AM, said:*Sigh* It is ignorance like yours that breeds this false caste system with syeds. I don't even know where to begin in order to correct your misconceptions. I'll save myself the trouble-- go read the numerous threads here regarding syeds. Skip over reading the ignorant, racist posts. *Sigh* may Allah save us from ignorance like yours.
respecting the sayeds is a requirement of us, however nowhere did i claim that i believe everyone who claims to be a sayed is a sayed. if they claim to be sayed, then respect them. if they are faking it, it will take all of 30 seconds to figure it out. one of the signs of a fake sayed is that they use their title to manipulate the gullible around them. i do not support any "caste" system, nor do i have any stake in the sayed marrying non sayed debate, nor do i worship sayeds.
macisaac, on 17 August 2011 - 05:36 AM, said:How does that make sense when some of the worst people out there were children/descendants of the Imams? Just think of all those who were pretender Imams, calling the people to themselves and rejecting the rightful holder of authority. Yes they were Hashimids, but no they certainly were not the best of all Shi`a...
is there not a hadith that one of the sahaba of imam ja'afar sadiq
was an umayyad, and he complained to the imam about when people cursed banu umayya, was he included in the curse, and the imam replied that his lineage made him from umayyads, but his actions made him from the shia?in the same way, i dont class people like abu jahl or the abbasids etc as "true" sayeds, you need to have two things - the lineage and the actions to back it up.
ImAli, on 17 August 2011 - 05:51 AM, said:I could say but it may offend people and hurt feelings on here and I don't want to do that. Let me just say that since visiting this site it seems that "syedness" has turned into a new caste system and it seems that people from this area of the world throw around the world syed more than anywhere else. To the person who said you should treat someone as a syed until you find out otherwise....what is that supposed to mean? I treat people according to their actions and behavior, and upon meeting people I treat everyone with the same respect until they show me a bad side. To be honest if someone walks around announcing that they are syed (because really who cares...prove your greatness don't just say it) it would automatically irritate most people I surround myself with and it would irritate me too.
its ok...im pakistani so i can say it.
it seems like the later imams must have lived in gujraat, considering how many sayeds come from south asia, particularly in karachi. this is probably because when partition happened, and the muslims migrated to the new country, they had a chance to make up their own history so those who were low "caste" people in india could suddenly make themselves sayed and be respected by people who had no way of knowing that they were nothing of the sort.
personally, i have known of one "sayed" who is quite proud of the fact that his ancestors were hindu brahmins. his explanation of this astonishing claim is that his ancestors "became" hindu under taqiyya.
allahu aalim.
I Hate, Because I Love.
Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from his father from Hammad from Hariz from Fudayl ibn Yasar who has said the following:
“I asked abu ‘Abd Allah, recipient of divine supreme covenant, ‘Are love and hate part of belief?’ The Imam asked, ‘Is belief anything but love and hate?’
Source: Al Kafi Volume 2 Page 125
#21
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Posted 17 August 2011 - 06:37 PM
The OP sounds like an undercover Wahabbi Najdi type to me. Denigrate Holy Prophet (S) & his Pure Progeny (A) but also their descendants so Muslims over time lose respect and reverence for the Prophet (S).
I have no idea how many Sayyids there are in the world but Allah (S) promised in Holy Quran the Prophet (S) would not be "abtur" and his children would proliferate.
Non-Shi'ah could give statistics/proof about "impossibility" of a man surviving for 1000+ years, would a Shi'ah believe it?
Interesting aside; I was at a wedding couple of weeks back and tasked with noting the naindra (gifts). A non-Sayyid sunni gave his gift and I prefixed his name with Haji. Sayyid sitting next to me jokingly complained he was Haji too so why didn't add that title when I wrote his gift.
Before I could reply the sunni gentleman intervened "You have Sayyid before your name and I have just Haji. No matter how many times I go to Makkah I couldn't get close to the respect & blessings you have from being aale Rasul (S)."
ALI
I have no idea how many Sayyids there are in the world but Allah (S) promised in Holy Quran the Prophet (S) would not be "abtur" and his children would proliferate.
Non-Shi'ah could give statistics/proof about "impossibility" of a man surviving for 1000+ years, would a Shi'ah believe it?
Interesting aside; I was at a wedding couple of weeks back and tasked with noting the naindra (gifts). A non-Sayyid sunni gave his gift and I prefixed his name with Haji. Sayyid sitting next to me jokingly complained he was Haji too so why didn't add that title when I wrote his gift.
Before I could reply the sunni gentleman intervened "You have Sayyid before your name and I have just Haji. No matter how many times I go to Makkah I couldn't get close to the respect & blessings you have from being aale Rasul (S)."
ALI
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Posted 17 August 2011 - 06:52 PM
Kismet110, on 17 August 2011 - 06:37 PM, said:The OP sounds like an undercover Wahabbi Najdi type to me. Denigrate Holy Prophet (S) & his Pure Progeny (A) but also their descendants so Muslims over time lose respect and reverence for the Prophet (S).
I have no idea how many Sayyids there are in the world but Allah (S) promised in Holy Quran the Prophet (S) would not be "abtur" and his children would proliferate.
Non-Shi'ah could give statistics/proof about "impossibility" of a man surviving for 1000+ years, would a Shi'ah believe it?
Interesting aside; I was at a wedding couple of weeks back and tasked with noting the naindra (gifts). A non-Sayyid sunni gave his gift and I prefixed his name with Haji. Sayyid sitting next to me jokingly complained he was Haji too so why didn't add that title when I wrote his gift.
Before I could reply the sunni gentleman intervened "You have Sayyid before your name and I have just Haji. No matter how many times I go to Makkah I couldn't get close to the respect & blessings you have from being aale Rasul (S)."
ALI
I have no idea how many Sayyids there are in the world but Allah (S) promised in Holy Quran the Prophet (S) would not be "abtur" and his children would proliferate.
Non-Shi'ah could give statistics/proof about "impossibility" of a man surviving for 1000+ years, would a Shi'ah believe it?
Interesting aside; I was at a wedding couple of weeks back and tasked with noting the naindra (gifts). A non-Sayyid sunni gave his gift and I prefixed his name with Haji. Sayyid sitting next to me jokingly complained he was Haji too so why didn't add that title when I wrote his gift.
Before I could reply the sunni gentleman intervened "You have Sayyid before your name and I have just Haji. No matter how many times I go to Makkah I couldn't get close to the respect & blessings you have from being aale Rasul (S)."
ALI
No one is losing respect for the prophet they are simply sayind syed is thrown around too much. Honestly if you are syed keep it to yourself. I have only been around Arab Shia and quite a few of them have syed ancestry but they never talk about it. On the other hand I have heard of other places where there might be a discussion and someone says, "I am syed so what I am saying is right." Really...did they just say that? The original poster of this thread even has another post asking if it is true that syeds can't be touched by fire? Really! Shame on the people who told the original poster that syeds can't be touched by fire.
Edited by ImAli, 17 August 2011 - 06:56 PM.
#23
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Posted 17 August 2011 - 06:57 PM
Thats because a large number of Syeds went there to escape persecution, and then after you factor in polygamy is doesn't seem that surprising.
I believe people are Syed when they can tell me which Imam they are descended from.
ImAli, on 17 August 2011 - 04:43 AM, said:
Thats because a large number of Syeds went there to escape persecution, and then, after you factor in polygamy it doesn't seem that surprising.
I believe people are Syed when they can tell me which Imam they are descended from.
I believe people are Syed when they can tell me which Imam they are descended from.
ImAli, on 17 August 2011 - 04:43 AM, said:I think alot of them are either mislead by an ancestor who was a liar or they are a liar. I noticed there is one area of the world in particular that seems to have a bottomless pit of "syeds" and I don't think there is any way that there are that MANY.
Thats because a large number of Syeds went there to escape persecution, and then, after you factor in polygamy it doesn't seem that surprising.
I believe people are Syed when they can tell me which Imam they are descended from.
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Posted 17 August 2011 - 07:07 PM
JimJam, on 17 August 2011 - 06:57 PM, said:Thats because a large number of Syeds went there to escape persecution, and then after you factor in polygamy is doesn't seem that surprising.
I believe people are Syed when they can tell me which Imam they are descended from.
Thats because a large number of Syeds went there to escape persecution, and then, after you factor in polygamy it doesn't seem that surprising.
I believe people are Syed when they can tell me which Imam they are descended from.
I believe people are Syed when they can tell me which Imam they are descended from.
Thats because a large number of Syeds went there to escape persecution, and then, after you factor in polygamy it doesn't seem that surprising.
I believe people are Syed when they can tell me which Imam they are descended from.
Really so if someone said that they are syed from Imam Jaffar Saddiq you will suddenly respect them more than everyone else around? I know quite a few people with the surname Al-Saddiq but they never talk about it and they may or may not be descended from him. I am sorry and I am not trying to be argumentative (although it seems that way) but it doesn't matter a persons bloodline, everyone unless they prove to be a bad person deserves the same respect. In fact I respect someone from a different religion that chooses Islam and is fully sincere about it more than someone who is running around telling people that he is syed. Unless you are a revolutionary syed fighting for the good of the people and the good of the world shut up about it.
Edited by ImAli, 17 August 2011 - 07:11 PM.
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